Last year you put in a lot of effort for the LGBT*IQ community at the Commerzbank and brought the issue right up to Board level. What has happened since then?

Jenny Friese: Through various activities we have achieved more visibility including an event about LGBT*IQ-involvement as a factor of commercial success, participated in the CSD in Berlin with our own truck and we have had a reading with Jens Schadendorf. Along with our LGBT*IQ-staff-network Arco of which I am the patron we have sensitized many people within the bank making for a more open community spirit. As a result, many staff have told their own stories in our staff magazine therefore making themselves available as role models.

Many people fear that outing themselves will damage their career. What has to happen to reduce and even eliminate this fear altogether?

Jenny Friese: It is incredible that staff even today still have such worries. For diversity to become normal we have to experience the relevant values within the company and create structures to make possible open interaction which is free of prejudice.  Visible role models who have outed themselves help as do diversity units and consistent management behaviour such as dealing with discriminatory comments and behaviour. This is clearly a challenge for everybody – irrespective of their sex, nationality, health or sexual orientation.

Why are heterogenous teams more successful in companies?

Jenny Friese: The answer to this is, in the meantime, proven by many studies such as that of the Institute for Diversity and Anti-discrimination Research Out in the Office?! And this does not just apply to bringing together and promoting many different people irrespective of origin, age, sex or other characteristics for LGBT*IQ Diversity.  The more heterogenous teams are and the more they make for an open culture the more they will be prepared to go in new directions and drive forward innovation. Based on my own experience I can say at least that diverse teams always produce outstanding results.

Last year you put in a lot of effort for the LGBT*IQ community at the Commerzbank and brought the issue right up to Board level. What has happened since then?

Jenny Friese: Through various activities we have achieved more visibility including an event about LGBT*IQ-involvement as a factor of commercial success, participated in the CSD in Berlin with our own truck and we have had a reading with Jens Schadendorf. Along with our LGBT*IQ-staff-network Arco of which I am the patron we have sensitized many people within the bank making for a more open community spirit. As a result, many staff have told their own stories in our staff magazine therefore making themselves available as role models.

Many people fear that outing themselves will damage their career. What has to happen to reduce and even eliminate this fear altogether?

Jenny Friese: It is incredible that staff even today still have such worries. For diversity to become normal we have to experience the relevant values within the company and create structures to make possible open interaction which is free of prejudice.  Visible role models who have outed themselves help as do diversity units and consistent management behaviour such as dealing with discriminatory comments and behaviour. This is clearly a challenge for everybody – irrespective of their sex, nationality, health or sexual orientation.

Why are heterogenous teams more successful in companies?

Jenny Friese: The answer to this is, in the meantime, proven by many studies such as that of the Institute for Diversity and Anti-discrimination Research Out in the Office?! And this does not just apply to bringing together and promoting many different people irrespective of origin, age, sex or other characteristics for LGBT*IQ Diversity.  The more heterogenous teams are and the more they make for an open culture the more they will be prepared to go in new directions and drive forward innovation. Based on my own experience I can say at least that diverse teams always produce outstanding results.

Last year you put in a lot of effort for the LGBT*IQ community at the Commerzbank and brought the issue right up to Board level. What has happened since then?

Jenny Friese: Through various activities we have achieved more visibility including an event about LGBT*IQ-involvement as a factor of commercial success, participated in the CSD in Berlin with our own truck and we have had a reading with Jens Schadendorf. Along with our LGBT*IQ-staff-network Arco of which I am the patron we have sensitized many people within the bank making for a more open community spirit. As a result, many staff have told their own stories in our staff magazine therefore making themselves available as role models.

Many people fear that outing themselves will damage their career. What has to happen to reduce and even eliminate this fear altogether?

Jenny Friese: It is incredible that staff even today still have such worries. For diversity to become normal we have to experience the relevant values within the company and create structures to make possible open interaction which is free of prejudice.  Visible role models who have outed themselves help as do diversity units and consistent management behaviour such as dealing with discriminatory comments and behaviour. This is clearly a challenge for everybody – irrespective of their sex, nationality, health or sexual orientation.

Why are heterogenous teams more successful in companies?

Jenny Friese: The answer to this is, in the meantime, proven by many studies such as that of the Institute for Diversity and Anti-discrimination Research Out in the Office?! And this does not just apply to bringing together and promoting many different people irrespective of origin, age, sex or other characteristics for LGBT*IQ Diversity.  The more heterogenous teams are and the more they make for an open culture the more they will be prepared to go in new directions and drive forward innovation. Based on my own experience I can say at least that diverse teams always produce outstanding results.

Last year you put in a lot of effort for the LGBT*IQ community at the Commerzbank and brought the issue right up to Board level. What has happened since then?

Jenny Friese: Through various activities we have achieved more visibility including an event about LGBT*IQ-involvement as a factor of commercial success, participated in the CSD in Berlin with our own truck and we have had a reading with Jens Schadendorf. Along with our LGBT*IQ-staff-network Arco of which I am the patron we have sensitized many people within the bank making for a more open community spirit. As a result, many staff have told their own stories in our staff magazine therefore making themselves available as role models.

Many people fear that outing themselves will damage their career. What has to happen to reduce and even eliminate this fear altogether?

Jenny Friese: It is incredible that staff even today still have such worries. For diversity to become normal we have to experience the relevant values within the company and create structures to make possible open interaction which is free of prejudice.  Visible role models who have outed themselves help as do diversity units and consistent management behaviour such as dealing with discriminatory comments and behaviour. This is clearly a challenge for everybody – irrespective of their sex, nationality, health or sexual orientation.

Why are heterogenous teams more successful in companies?

Jenny Friese: The answer to this is, in the meantime, proven by many studies such as that of the Institute for Diversity and Anti-discrimination Research Out in the Office?! And this does not just apply to bringing together and promoting many different people irrespective of origin, age, sex or other characteristics for LGBT*IQ Diversity.  The more heterogenous teams are and the more they make for an open culture the more they will be prepared to go in new directions and drive forward innovation. Based on my own experience I can say at least that diverse teams always produce outstanding results.

Last year you put in a lot of effort for the LGBT*IQ community at the Commerzbank and brought the issue right up to Board level. What has happened since then?

Jenny Friese: Through various activities we have achieved more visibility including an event about LGBT*IQ-involvement as a factor of commercial success, participated in the CSD in Berlin with our own truck and we have had a reading with Jens Schadendorf. Along with our LGBT*IQ-staff-network Arco of which I am the patron we have sensitized many people within the bank making for a more open community spirit. As a result, many staff have told their own stories in our staff magazine therefore making themselves available as role models.

Many people fear that outing themselves will damage their career. What has to happen to reduce and even eliminate this fear altogether?

Jenny Friese: It is incredible that staff even today still have such worries. For diversity to become normal we have to experience the relevant values within the company and create structures to make possible open interaction which is free of prejudice.  Visible role models who have outed themselves help as do diversity units and consistent management behaviour such as dealing with discriminatory comments and behaviour. This is clearly a challenge for everybody – irrespective of their sex, nationality, health or sexual orientation.

Why are heterogenous teams more successful in companies?

Jenny Friese: The answer to this is, in the meantime, proven by many studies such as that of the Institute for Diversity and Anti-discrimination Research Out in the Office?! And this does not just apply to bringing together and promoting many different people irrespective of origin, age, sex or other characteristics for LGBT*IQ Diversity.  The more heterogenous teams are and the more they make for an open culture the more they will be prepared to go in new directions and drive forward innovation. Based on my own experience I can say at least that diverse teams always produce outstanding results.

Why are you involved in this topic at work?

Nikita Baranov: I want anyone who works for us or with us not to have to ask themselves the energy-sapping questions “Should I come out?” and “How much should I reveal about myself?” – I want them to be able to be who they are, with their entire identity. To come to work without having to fear being harassed, bullied or discriminated against just because of who they are. Not only to be diverse and integrated, but also to have a feeling of belonging.

What responses do you get to this?

Nikita Baranov: I get positive responses to my involvement, but I also notice that the topic of LGBT+ is not always considered an integral part of Diversity & Inclusion by all employees. That’s why we need to continually raise people’s awareness because only a diverse workforce can meet our goal of producing creative and innovative solutions for our equally diverse customers.

What can we all achieve by getting involved in LGBT*IQ networks?

Nikita Baranov: I’m convinced that only by joining forces will we manage to eliminate discrimination at work in order to promote equal rights. Networks help us increase visibility, and company-wide projects have a bigger reach and significance. One thing is certain: we’re all fighting for a common cause, and alliances can only be beneficial.

Since July, you have been Executive Assistant to the Chief Human Resources Officer at METRO AG – will this enable you to make LGBT*IQ topics even more visible?

Nikita Baranov: Above all, I firmly believe that, regardless of role or position, everyone has a voice and a platform that they should use to promote LGBT+ topics. As LGBT+ diversity is a key part of our corporate culture, I’m happy to be able to make the topic even more visible.

You’re often seen with a rainbow – what does it mean to you to be out and visible?

Nikita Baranov: I want to maintain a daily dialogue about LGBT+ because unconscious bias is something that affects everyone. The more visibility I can give the subject, the more we will become aware of our unconscious thoughts. Being out at work and not having to hide my identity is a prerequisite for showing myself as a whole person and performing at my best.

Nico Hofmann, many congratulations on being ranked no. 1 in GERMANY’S TOP 100 OUT EXECUTIVES list. You were already on the list last year – what responses did you receive as a result of that?

Nico Hofmann: Thanks! I’m delighted, although I see the list of Out Executives as more of a platform for dialogue than just a ranking. After I was ranked 12th last year, I was able to create lots of contacts with other colleagues from the list. That’s very valuable. It’s important to make diversity visible and the Out Executives list is a very interesting way of doing that.

Being out at work – what does that mean in a leadership position?

Nico Hofmann: Managers shape a company’s culture, so the significance shouldn’t be underestimated. However, the need for diversity and the energy come primarily also from the employees themselves. The younger generation in particular are making very strong calls for this – something we have a keen sense of at UFA. The company has changed in the past five years, becoming much more female and much younger. And the more openly we practice diversity, the more open our dealings with each other become. Today we discuss things differently and cast roles differently as well. UFA’s parent group Bertelsmann has the be.queer network, which we became part of by creating be.queer@UFA. Here, too, a lot of the initiative stemmed from our employees.

Nevertheless, the German film industry in particular could still do a lot more about diversity. How do you see your own role here?

Nico Hofmann: I very clearly have a political agenda. I appear in the media and talk about the subject. Germany is about five years behind the USA in this area, but things are moving. Together with the media industry magazine DWDL.de, we had planned to hold a diversity summit for the film industry in Cologne this year. Unfortunately, it had to be cancelled due to the coronavirus pandemic. But the summit will take place next year because the demand for it was very strong. The major channels had confirmed their attendance, the tickets were quickly sold out and big names were set to appear on the panels – that tells me how topical the subject is for the film industry.

LGBT*IQ people still barely feature in German film and television productions, and when they do, they often have very clichéd roles. What is being done to change this?

Nico Hofmann: Diversity has long been visible in our daily dramas such as “GZSZ” (“Good Times, Bad Times”), and we have currently begun filming our queer series “All You Need” for the public channel ARD – this wouldn’t have happened a few years ago. If we show LGBT*IQ people as a perfectly normal part of films and series without turning them into victims or resorting to clichés, my hope is that, in society as a whole, they can develop their own self-identity because this has become an entirely natural thing to do.

What’s more, today we have a different generation of creatives. I teach at the Film Academy in Ludwigsburg and some of my best students there are from minority ethnic groups and approach topics in a completely different way. I’ve also had the opportunity to support the development of several transgender students at the Film Academy and I’m seeing a generation come through that has a very strong need for diversity.

Nikita, congratulations on you birthday also from our side. Why os a donation campaign for the PROUT AT WORK-Foundation so important right now, in times of crisis?

The answer to crises lies in togetherness – precisely because of the physical distance we experience in everyday life, it is all the more important that we move closer as a community. Of course, this also applies to our working environments. One thing is clear, we will all work together differently in the future, and the Foundation is working tirelessly to achieve this: For a working world that stands for more diversity and inclusion – detached from sexual orientation, origin, religion and identity.

What is the added value of PROUT AT WORK for you as a person?

Without the long-standing support of PROUT AT WORK, METROPride, our network for LGBT+ employees and allies, would not be where it is today. The numerous formats that PROUT AT WORK offers – from guidebooks to awareness training for all levels in the company to important networking with other company networks, politicians and associations – have enabled us to sustainably anchor the topic of LGBT+ diversity within METRO and to constantly expand it.

What can each individual do to help PROUT AT WORK not just during this time?

Everyone can use PROUT AT WORK’s analog and digital offerings to promote a discrimination-free workplace and more diversity in their company. Especially now, in a time where a lot of conversation only takes place via digital channels, an appreciative environment and mindfulness is more important than ever. In order to promote dialogue and raise awareness of these issues, the Foundation relies on all the support it can get.

Thank you for your time and the idea on Facebook!

You refer to yourself as “divers” (non-binary). What experiences have you had at Bosch with this identity?

Nils_Séline “Nica” Schächtele: DIVERSITY has been an important topic at Bosch for some years now. I have always liked the term “divers” very much because I have intersex as well as transgender-androgynous and bigender characteristics, and “divers” covers all of them. The change in the law creating the third gender option in Germany has really pushed things forward simultaneously for Bosch and for me. This year, we started to take many diverse steps together and to have lively discussions – a win-win situation for all of us. Sometimes, I jokingly refer to myself as “Bosch’s token non-binary person”. The feedback from my colleagues at the office was cautiously positive, and I got a lot of respect for being open about my gender. There was also a bit of confusion, in particular due to my two additional first names Séline and Nica. If I brought up this subject myself, the question I heard most frequently was: “Can I still call you Nils?” – which I’m OK with.

What does it mean to you to be an intersex person in our society?

Nils_Séline “Nica” Schächtele: It means belonging to a tabooed minority that is largely invisible. Sometimes I feel like we’re aliens from a Science Fiction movie: “So people like that actually exist?” “Yes, they do!!” Noticing that someone has both typically female and typically male characteristics, or finding out more details about this, or even realising that someone doesn’t fit into any traditional category, makes many people uneasy. It doesn’t match the binary view of the world that is instilled in us. It takes a lot of patience and stamina to overcome this hurdle.

When did you come out in your workplace? And what challenges did this pose at your company and with your colleagues?

Nils_Séline “Nica” Schächtele: I began to come out at Bosch during a telephone call with Olaf Schreiber – the spokesperson for the company’s LGBTIQ network RBg – and then in a telephone call about the “third gender option” with Anja Hormann from the central Bosch Diversity Team. After that, I gradually informed my direct colleagues at the office, my carpool group, my supervisor and the local HR department. A wonderful video made by colleagues for colleagues on IDAHOBIT inspired me to have my first name changed to Nils_Séline in the internal company address book. It is written with the so-called “Gender_Gap” to visualise the gender continuum between male and female. I dedicated my first blog entry in the internal network to this subject and sometimes I was moved to tears by the approval I received from all over the world. On Diversity Day, our office organised a Diversity Business Lunch which I attended and where I was able to talk about non-binary gender aspects with those present. Generally, I was pleasantly surprised at how much good will and appreciation were shown to me at all levels. However, the biggest challenge is, and continues to be, plucking up the courage to speak openly to others. Not to mention the IT side, where the only options you have in many areas are male and female.

What advice would you give to intersex people planning to come out?

Nils_Séline “Nica” Schächtele: Take it slowly – small steps are best, so give yourself time. Coming out as an intersex person requires a great deal of care and courage. Things can quickly take a wrong turn. I recommend beginning with people who are not quite so close to you. After a bit of practice, you’ll find it easier to talk to your family and close friends. And get in touch with LGBTIQ allies – they’re open-minded and make very good listeners. Talking to allies will make you feel better and boost your self-confidence.

What are your hopes with regard to the visibility of intersex per­sons in particular and the LGBTIQ Community in general at your company?

Nils_Séline “Nica” Schächtele: Let’s be as courageous as possible. Intersexuality is still a big taboo topic. In many places, we as a society have yet to take a clear stand against hastily begun hormonal treatment or surgery which is not medically necessary. The few who are open about their identity are inundated with letters and requests from all sides. But there are other important topics, too. That’s why I’d like to see many people – in particular many allies – spread the message that the human body doesn’t just develop into a man or a woman and that gender actually covers a broad spectrum. I’d like this to be matched by a more relaxed approach – as if you’re talking about the weather or what you’re going to cook for dinner. I experienced this on Stuttgart’s commuter trains recently and it worked really well. As regards our LGBTIQ Community at Bosch, I hope that many people will join us in the years to come, the proportion of allies will grow steadily, and gender diversity will gain an even higher profile. This applies to intersex, transgender and queer identities topics of any kind.

You identify as a bisexual woman – what does that mean to you?

Katharina Reimann: Perhaps I wouldn’t describe myself as bisexual so much as maybe even pansexual? That’s because to me, sexual attraction is person-specific, not gender-specific. I’ve known this from a very early age, and have communicated it without feeling any shame.

Tell us about how you came out.

Katharina Reimann: It feels like I come out on a recurring basis, because many people think, “Oh, she’s just going through a lesbian or heterosexual or whatever phase”, just because they happen to run into me in the company of a person they think of as male or female. That’s why I have to keep explaining my sexual orientation. Sometimes I think that for the people I see on a regular basis to “believe” my sexual orientation, I’d have to have a polyamorous relationship with at least two trans* people, a cis woman and a heterosexual cis man.

What kind of questions and clichés with regard to bisexual people come your way in everyday life?

Katharina Reimann: What I frequently encounter in everyday life is the cliché of infidelity. Since I supposedly have more options theoretically (another cliché I hate), many people think I’m fickle and more likely to cheat. What I also get a lot is people saying I’m only with women because it turns men on… “Really?!”, I think to myself. That’s just nonsense. Sadly, I don’t get a lot of questions. I’d rather be asked questions than repeatedly have to defend myself against prejudices.

So far, what actual experiences have you had after coming out as a bisexual woman in the workplace?

Katharina Reimann: I’ve worked for a living in many different environments, and my experience has been that in academia and in the arts, sexual orientation has little to no relevance. But in my side job in the restaurant industry I’ve never come out, because I’ve experienced and seen a lot of sexual intrusiveness in that sector, and never felt safe.

What’s your advice to people who are about to come out (in the workplace)?

Katharina Reimann: Since I’ve only ever come out in situations in which I felt comfortable and safe and that I was being taken seriously, even though I’m generally a very open person, I would say: create safe spaces for yourselves, get involved in a network, for example. Check out what anti-discrimination structures there are in your company. How much about your private life do you reveal to your colleagues? What are your needs? Do you need professional support, for example? Do you perhaps want to work to actively change the social structure of your workplace? Knowing the answers to these questions often helps you to make good decisions for yourself.

In your opinion, what can and should companies do to raise the visibility of LGBTIQ topics in the workplace?

Katharina Reimann: Generally speaking, companies should pay attention to social interaction. Offer continuing education courses that strengthen the community. Refuse to allow any kind of discrimination. Harassment or discrimination or malicious gossip against colleagues should be grounds for termination, and that should be openly communicated. Equal opportunities officers should be the rule and should have far-reaching veto rights. Generally, sexualised violence in the workplace should also be addressed and, hopefully, eliminated some day. That’s my hope for an ideal world…

Many thanks for talking to us, Katharina.